Here is another outline of baptism with the Spirit for those who are interested in this idea. As I’ve said before baptism with the Spirit is something I would encourage all Christians to experience. And if it is already your experience I would encourage you to continue to live in and look into the Bible to understand more.

This outline is by John Crowder whose teaching is surprisingly sound and biblical considering some of the excesses of his meetings and claims that he makes – that I’ve already discussed elsewhere.

Believers already have the Holy Spirit

In this video he discusses the notion that some have that we receive the Holy Spirit as a second blessing at some point after believing in Jesus. Crowder argues from Collosians 2:9-10 that godhead dwells in Christ so if Christ is in us – so is the Spirit and the Father for that matter. So the Trinity cannot be separated this way.

Instead he describes the experience of baptism with the Spirit – which he most certainly believes in – as having our senses tangibly immersed, overcome or filled with the Spirit.

Baptism with the Spirit is just the first of many infillings

He then quickly goes on to say that this is not just a one time experience but we are encouraged to be continually filled – finding our excitement and ecstasy in Christ.

I don’t think his point is to deny that there is an experience separate from believing in Jesus where this happens but simply to say that it is should be just the first of many such experiences of being filled with the Spirit. Though there are deep ecstatic experiences where people are completely overcome with the Spirit there is also the immense joy of continual living in God’s presence as we drink in the Spirit every moment of every day.

But he makes the point that when we are first filled with the Spirit – this experience of baptism with the Spirit simply means that we have begun to drink from a well that is already in us.

Do even unbelievers have the Spirit?

Interestingly and perhaps more controversially Crowder goes further to say that even unbelievers have God within them but in a hidden way. He argues this from Paul’s sermon on Mars Hill where Paul quotes the pagan writer who says ‘in him we live and move and have our being… we are his offspring’.

Crowder sees salvation is the result of recognising our true identity – that in reality we are not separated from God that we have separated ourselves from God by becoming his enemies. In Acts 8 – believers did not know about the Holy Spirit – it wasn’t that they didn’t have the Holy Spirit – they just didn’t know it.

He also sees Romans 8:9 not as saying that some people don’t belong to God instead Paul is simply saying that disobedient believers who say they have the Spirit should be reflecting the life of Christ.

I’m not so sure that I follow all of this last point but I think that his point is to emphasise that our experience of baptism of the Spirit is not when the Holy Spirit comes into us as the Holy Spirit is not just there because we have believed but was even within us before as he is omni-present.

Related Posts

Baptised in the Spirit
How to get Stoned on Jesus: Meet John Crowder and Friends
Seven Spirits Burning by John Crowder

As a charismatic it is my experience and belief that the authentic gifts of the Holy Spirit are still operating in the church today. They are there for all believers to seek and to use out of love for each other enabling us all to draw closer to Jesus together.

Some time ago I gave some brief definitions of the gifts of the Spirit as found in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 and looking at these I thought they needed a little more elaboration.

1. A word of wisdom

This is when God gives someone insight into how God is working out his purposes so that they can speak into a situation enabling someone to make appropriate sensible decisions. Like many of the gifts this may come in very natural ways in conversations and provide practical help in situations leading to level-headed and successful responses.

2. A word of knowledge

I tend to see the definition of this as ‘God given insight into God’s heart and mind’ that is given by teachers such as Rodman Williams and Mark Stibbe as being the most biblical. But the idea of this being specific knowledge of a situation that God reveals has been popularised by preachers such as John Wimber and is often what people mean when they use this term.

3. Faith

The gift of faith is when God encourages you to hold onto him in a difficult situation even if you can see no way out. People’s faith may be stimulated by stories of answers to prayer – particularly of healing and miracles – or even of others being saved – but we need to ensure that these are cautiously stated and are factual and true or people will become cynical. Ultimately it is God that gives the faith it isn’t something you can whip up.

4. Gifts of healing

Healings occur when God enables you to supernaturally bring about wholeness and relieve someone’s suffering in response to prayer. Healings may also come in response to you commanding sickness to leave or you commanding a healing to come as we see Jesus and the early apostles doing. But I think we need to take care that we do this in a gentle yet authoritative way.

5. Miraculous powers

These are when God enables you to meet the needs of others in amazing and unusual ways. The way this term is often used gives much overlap with healing – but another important aspect of this God given provision. We need to take care to distinguish needs from wants and not be led astray by materialism. I am thrilled when I hear of God providing money and resources when it clearly demonstrates God’s care for the poor.

6. Prophecy

When God speaks to you so that you can show others what he is saying. This doesn’t need to have the trapping of ‘Thus says the Lord…’. You might just want to say that you sense the Holy Spirit is emphasizing something that you go on to explain. It might be about God’s nature or purposes or specifics of a situation. Though some may refer to revelation about specifics of a situation such as insights into someone’s health problems as a word of knowledge – the Bible appears to refer to this as prophecy.

7. Distinguishing between spirits

The gift of discernment may give you insight into what is actually happening in a given spiritual situation. For instance, when someone is apparently responding to God in an unusual way is this really the Holy Spirit moving being embraced with humility or is it an emotional response as the result of human hype or showmanship or are their even evil forces at work here?

8. Speaking in different kinds of tongues

Speaking in tongues is when God enables you to speak to him in languages you have never learnt. As with all the gifts you are still in control but if you receive this gift unlike other gifts you can operate it at will especially to use in their own devotions. Though sometimes the first gift someone receives we cannot say that without this ability someone is not Spirit filled.

9. Interpretation of tongues

The Bible indicates that speaking in tongues when we come together should involve each person speaking in turn and that someone should then explain to others what someone who just spoke in tongues actually said. I would only speak in tongues in this way if I felt specifically prompted by God and I believe the result would be a prayer from the Spirit that sums up some or all of the people’s hearts. When I hear such tongues or speak them myself I often sense that I understand them and so give the interpretation.

Further Reading

Here is a good summary of Mark Stibbe’s out of print book Know Your Spiritual Gifts summarised by Alison Morgan

Related post: What Does Charismatic Mean?

Charisma Magazine – one of the most popular Christian magazines for charismatic Christians has made some predictions for 2012 in this post of twelve trends to watch. You’ll be glad to hear they are not about the end of the world or any other end time nonsense they’re mostly based on careful some observations of what is happening across the globe. Here’s my summary of them but please feel free to check out the link.

1. Record numbers of Christians will be martyrs

Every day over 400 Christians die for their faith around the world, mostly in Islamic countries. Charisma highlights the probable increases in persecution Africa such as in Nigeria, where Pentecostals are clashing violently with Islam.

2. The Asian church will take the lead in missionary ventures

The churches in India and China are growing immensely and sending more and more missionaries into Islamic countries and even into Europe and the West.

3. The Arab Spring will thaw resistance to the gospel

New opening for the gospel are appearing as Egypt, Syria & Libya have become more democratic – such as through Christian TV which Charisma assures us is “not the constant begging for money we hear on American TV”.

4. North America increasingly will be viewed as a needy mission field

Church attendance has been falling rapidly in the States and there are many overseas students from countries where Christianity is even more in the minority.

5. The debate over approving homosexuality will take centre stage

I certainly agree that how Christians should respond to GLBT issues is set to be one of the major controversies of the year in mainline, evangelical and Pentecostal churches.

6. America will experience a church-growth renaissance

Though many churches are closing many new non-traditional churches are being planted. Church growth Ed Stetzer predicts thousands of churches being planted this year (more than are closing). Is it over the top to say this could lead to an explosion on the scale of the Second Great Awakening?

7. The economic downturn will actually be good for the church

John Piper believes that in recession:
1. we depend on God more
2. non-Christians see efforts to reach them as love rather than exploitation;
3. people are more ready to hear about eternal life as they are less secure about earthly things
4. Christians are more generous as they have less material security.

8. Look for a radical reformation to occur in charismatic/Pentecostal churches

Charisma predicts more high profile scandals – moral & financial – as God purges the church. People will become more interested in authenticity, integrity and holiness than in hyped up showmanship, bizarre manifestations and prosperity teaching.

9. Denominations will be redefined

As a new generation of leaders develop some Pentecostal denominations will ditch old structures & policies and shift to be based more on relationships than on hierarchy. The ones that don’t will become increasingly irrelevant.

10. Many megachurches will stop trying to grow bigger and will instead branch out

Churches will plant out new congregations rather than just grow bigger. The shift will mean church becomes more personal and relational.

11. Disasters will continue, but Christians will often be the first responders

Natural disasters are increasing world wide perhaps this may be part of a cyclical pattern or it may be due to global warming. Rather than seeing this as anything to do with the end of the world Charisma predicts that Christian organizations and churches will show the mercy of Christ when more disasters inevitably hit in 2012.

12. Expect a supernatural surprise

The article ends by pointing out that ‘Our generation has never witnessed a revival’ and in typical charismatic fashion encouraging us to pray expectantly for one this year.

A book review

This is fairly scholarly expositional teaching on the Holy Spirit from John Crowder – a hyper-charismatic preacher with a Latter Rain heritage.  The odd turn of phrase did jar a little but overall I found Seven Spirits Burning surprisingly satisfying. I particularly liked the fact that it is very positive about the Kingdom of God.

Seven Spirits Burning contains some sound teaching on the seven aspects of the Spirit found in Isaiah 11:2. It shows how first and foremost the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord, but also how the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, and finally of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. John Crowder draws on many scriptures and uses a variety of translations. He has produced some well written arguments that give some good general principles about how the Spirit works. I’ve read quite a few prophetic revivalist type books. Seven Spirits Burning is much more Biblical and better written than most.

But, as is the case with many books from these circles, I would be cautious of what Seven Spirits Burning says about miracles. For instance I wouldn’t advise pulling a wheelchair user out of their chair as a young boy does in one of the illustrations. And I am sorry but I just don’t believe some of the bizarre claims John Crowder makes; I wonder if he is actually joking, which elsewhere in the book he does admit to sometimes doing. He also tells some of the more far-fetched stories from church history as if they were facts. Nevertheless these tall stories are only a small part of Seven Spirits Burning.

If you are happy with or can cope with John Crowder’s occasional aberrations then you can learn much about the true working of the Holy Spirit from this book.

8/10

Thanks to Mike Morrell of the SpeakEasy Network for sending me this book to review free of charge.

Also check out my earlier post How to get Stoned on Jesus: Meet John Crowder and Friends for some of the more bizarre aspects of John Crowder’s ministry.

A book review

Seeing Through Heaven’s Eyes by Norway’s Leif Hetland is written for Christians needing encouragement. It is for all who believe in grace but need reminding not to fall into legalism or to turn away, and especially for those tempted to be angry with God.

Leif Hetland came back from a Prodigal lifestyle, was baptised in the Spirit, went to Bible college and became a church leader. But in doing so he felt he became like the Prodigal’s elder brother. Years later he received the revelation of God’s love, which Seeing Through Heaven’s Eyes is all about. It changed the way he saw God, himself, others and the future. For example, Leif sees heaven’s culture as the dance of the Trinity which we are invited to join. And he doesn’t deny that the world will get worse but he still sees the present reality of God’s Kingdom increasing until paradise is fully restored.

He’s suffered serious injuries and illnesses along the way and trusted God through them all. In fact Leif has continued with a passion to reach out to others including Islamic leaders. When things are painful he recognises that you may need to go through a process of isolation before coming out the other side. If you let him, God’s Spirit will guide you and bring you out of your cocoon as a beautiful butterfly.

Leif Hetland is a charismatic preacher. He hears God’s voice and prays for the sick. He takes Genesis and Revelation more literally than I would but is not tied to one Bible translation. His writing is motivational but not sentimental or prone to hype. His masterly story-telling will touch something deep within, leaving a warm glow that draws you to trust in God. You might not learn anything new intellectually from Seeing Through Heaven’s Eyes but you’ll be encouraged to hold on to God with all your heart.

9/10

Thanks to Mike Morrell of the SpeakEasy Network for sending me this book to review free of charge.

Related posts:
Chrysalis by Rob McAlpine also uses the metaphor of a cocoon.
7 charismissional links – includes a link to a book about the ‘dance of the Trinity’.
Is the Bible the Word of God? for some of my ramblings related to taking the Bible literally.

Thank you for all your responses to the poll asking how often you speak in tongues. Here are the results.

Interesting that no-one says that they did once but don’t anymore. It is encouraging that those who have recived this gift do continue to use it.

It also is interesting that so many people would say that they speak in tongues occasionally. I intended this to mean less than every few days but I cannot be sure as the poll randomised the order in which the options were displayed. But assuming that people did take it to mean this it means a number of tongue speakers do so perhaps once a week or once a fortnight or less.

I probably speak – or a least think – in tongues most days. As my wife pointed out sometimes we forget how often we do this and so we don’t feel that we speak in tongues as much as we really do. And just like Linda who also commented on the post I speak in tongues mostly in my own devotions in the comments but it is not limited to a specific time. It is something I can do in any odd moment as I go about my daily routine.

There are times in charismatic worship where lots of people speak in tongues all at the same time. It could be that this is the time that they use the gift. Interestingly I only rarely join in with such times but occasionally I do feel prompted to speak in tongues out loud and then interpret what I have prayed back into English.

For those who don’t speak in tongues and want to know a bit more I suggest having a look at my earlier post on baptism in the Spirit.

This is one of the best videos I can find on baptism in the Spirit. This girl tells a very candid story of how she received the baptism in the Spirit despite some of her reservations. I too was baptised with the Spirit in an Assemblies of God church. Though I haven’t been part of a Pentecostal denomination for many years I am grateful to be still part of a church that believes and practices the baptism in the Spirit.

Manifestations of the Spirit

You don’t have to speak in tongues to be baptised with the Spirit but baptism with the Spirit is a clear definite experience that you know has happened. In the video the girl describes an amazing sense of peace and joy. But she also says some things that you may think are a little strange. Her tongue feels thick and heavy and she talks about being hot when she prays. Sometimes things like this happen but they are not that common.

Interpretation of Tongues

When she feels prompted to pray for her friend I think she points out something very interesting. She says that generally it’s not a good idea to speak in tongues in front of someone who doesn’t understand. I’d tend to agree with that but on this occasion God enabled the person to understand what she was saying in tongues. The Bible calls this is the gift of interpretation. My experience is that often when I speak in tongues or hear someone else speak in tongues I can interpret what is being said but not always.

Have you been baptised in the Spirit? What is your story?

I’d be very interested to know your answer to this question. The poll is completely anonymous but you can identify yourself and give me more details in the comments if you want to.

 
I will post the results of this in a week or two.
 

I only sat down and talked with Bryn Jones once but I owe the man much as do many Christians today.

Fresh out of University in the ‘80s I remember reading Restoration Magazine – a Christian publication Bryn had founded. Bryn among others contributed to this magazine that taught the various emphasise of what some called the house church movement. This included such topics as the kingdom of God as a present reality and not just a future hope, that as Christians we are in covenant with God and with each other and the role of Ephesians 4 ministries. I was looking for a place to do my postgraduate studies in computing at the time. I was so struck by what I read that I decided to choose Bradford where the magazine was published, determined to learn more.

On my arrival I promptly found Bryn’s church – Church House Christian Fellowship. A decade earlier Bryn had brought together three Bradford churches. The merged church purchased and refurbished the old Church House building of the local diocese (pictured below) from which the church took its name.

Bryn had a great heart for social justice which came over in his preaching. He was studying a Masters in Peace Studies and I would occasionally see him in the corridors of Bradford University. But it was with David Matthew, then the editor of Restoration Magazine, that I quickly developed a good friendship. David had previously been one of the elders in the church and founded a Bible college that trained up the new leaders of the movement. I learnt a lot from the teaching of the church with Bryn Jones and others speaking each Sunday. I also learnt a lot chatting with Dave over curries or relaxing on a beanbag sipping herbal teas.

Bryn believed in restoration not renewal

Many charismatics looked to God to renew their denominations. Spirit filled Christians may have felt that they had more in common with each other than with non-charismatics in their own churches. However they were often encouraged by charismatic leaders to stay in their churches and pray for change.

Bryn’s view was very different. He believed in churches starting from scratch – built on New Testament lines free of denominational traditions. Not that the New Testament churches were perfect. He wanted to restore all that was in his heart for the church from the beginning. Bryn’s desire was not to start a new denomination. He saw what he was building as an organic network of churches with a fluid structure. This is what he believed church should be like.

Bryn was a modern day apostle

Another controversial point was that Bryn was recognised as an apostle. He worked with others in an apostolic team made up of ministries outlined in Ephesians 4:11 – apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. From what I understand the team had grown out of a group that had met in the home of a much respected Bible teacher Arthur Wallis.

Bryn Jones had also worked alongside others such as Terry Virgo - who went on to form his own very successful apostolic team New Frontiers – and David Tomlinson who is now a prominent voice in the Emerging Church. By the time I arrived in Bradford these men had left the scene but Bryn’s younger brother Keri Jones who was also recognised as an apostle and was one of the many visiting speakers at Church House.

The line up of Bryn’s team was constantly changing and even David Matthew was sometimes uncertain as to whether he was official on the team but he was never bothered by that. The whole thing was based on relationship.

Bryn’s continued influence

I had only been at Bradford two or three years when things began to change. The church moved into new premises and became known as Abundant Life Church with Paul Scanlon taking the lead. Bryn announced that he and his team Covenant Ministries were moving to the Midlands to be based at Nettle Hill in Coventry. The college that David Matthew had established Covenant College was moving there too.

I responded to a call to move to the Midlands to support one of the new churches there. After being in Bradford for only four years I moved to Birmingham. And I am still here in the same church to this day – though we have seen some changes. After being released by Bryn we linked up with Alan Scotland whom Bryn earlier had recognised as an apostle. Alan, in a similar way to Terry Virgo, sees his apostolic role as more advisory than Bryn did, facilitating the work of local churches.

David Matthew also moved to the Midlands but lived in Leicester while working at Nettle Hill editing the college’s distance learning Modular Training Programme, which I went on to study. David is a good friend and we still keep in contact. When he felt that his time with Bryn had come to a natural end David returned to Yorkshire.

Bryn’s legacy

I was sad to hear of Bryn’s death in 2003. He was a great man who pioneered God’s purposes in a way that few do. Yes, looking back I would say there were mistakes along the way and people got hurt. In trying to restore an understanding of leadership and authority there were some inevitable abuses. But we must never forget that Bryn taught us so much about apostolic ministry, the kingdom of God and restoring God’s simple organic pattern to church life built on relationships. Many of these ideas have been embraced in other churches today – not just house churches. I’m grateful to have met this man and to have been influenced by him.

Related Post: An Evening With A Real Live Apostle
Further Reading: Restoration History by David Matthew
You can buy Restoration Magazine on CD here. (I don’t get any commission!)

1 Corinthians 12: 8-10 is probably the most famous lists of gifts of the Spirit, certainly in charismatic circles. It is through these gifts that we know the Holy Spirit is with us when we gather together and when we are sent out in mission. However some of the gifts are better understood than others. Here’s some definitions for you. For a more detailed discussion of the gifts see my post Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

1. A message of wisdom

God given insight into how God is working out his purposes.

2. A message of knowledge

God given insight into God’s heart and mind.

3. Faith

When God encourages you to hold onto him in a difficult situation even if you can see no way out.

4. Gifts of healing

God given abilities to supernaturally bring about wholeness.

5. Miraculous powers

God given abilities to meets needs in amazing and unusual ways

6. Prophecy

When God speaks to you so that you can show others what he is saying. It might be truths about God or specifics of a situation.

7. Distinguishing between spirits

The God given ability to see what force is behind something. Is it the Holy Spirit, a human spirit or something else?

8. Speaking in different kinds of tongues

When God enables you to speak to him in languages you have never learnt.

9. Interpretation of tongues

When God enables you to explain to others what someone who just spoke in tongues actually said.

What’s number 10?

I know there are only nine in these verses but God is such a creative God, surely there must be more?

Further Reading

Related post on this blog: Gifts of the Holy Spirit

A friend of mine Scott Lencke is blogging about these gifts from 1 Corinthians 12 in his own blog Prodigal Thought and in a related team blog called “To Be Continued”.